[Logo] Jaikoz and SongKong Forums
  [Search] Search   [Recent Topics] Recent Topics   [Members]  Member Listing   [Groups] Back to home page 
[Register] Register / 
[Login] Login 
Discogs genres and styles  XML
Forum Index -> Jaikoz Questions Go to Page: 1, 2 Next 
Author Message
timhoyland



Joined: 13/03/2010 21:20:31
Messages: 1
Offline

Really liking the software. Is it possible to retrieve the Discogs Genre AND Style, and then apply them to the Genre and Grouping fields respectively? From what I can see the Discogs Style is used to populate the Genre field and there's no option to change the mapped fields, or to obtain the actual Discogs Genre data.
paultaylor

Pro
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
Messages: 7704
Offline

Not possible at the moment

thanks Paul (Administrator)
mcammer

Pro

Joined: 06/02/2008 07:04:28
Messages: 69
Offline

I would like that too.
pschonmann

Pro
[Avatar]
Joined: 30/11/2008 14:02:22
Messages: 239
Offline

And do you plan to add this feature Paul ? For example .... in next 6months ?
It would be fine too add this, because these genres are relatively correct... but much better than last.fm or others...

Support Jaikoz! I did it!
[Email] [WWW]
paultaylor

Pro
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
Messages: 7704
Offline

Guys if you really want this you can always go down the customisation route, ( for a relatively small amount I could up the priority of this feature)

thanks Paul (Administrator)
pschonmann

Pro
[Avatar]
Joined: 30/11/2008 14:02:22
Messages: 239
Offline

How many ? costs low, medium, high priority ?
Im considering to support you Paul for great work and good program. But I dont know how much.

Support Jaikoz! I did it!
[Email] [WWW]
paultaylor

Pro
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
Messages: 7704
Offline

I have a minor release out soon, to soon too get i this enhancement.
But for $100 USD I could guarantee it for the subsequent release.

thanks Paul (Administrator)
Alfg

Pro

Joined: 20/10/2009 15:32:35
Messages: 334
Location: Germany
Offline

Paul,
I just donated you £20.00 GBP with Document Number: 2679-9526-1543-1531
So it's 1/5 for this enhancement.
Maybe other users will donate you the remaining parts.

using Jaikoz 9.4.1 NGS and as a backup Jaikoz 7.1.1
paultaylor

Pro
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
Messages: 7704
Offline

Thanks Alfg, yes I was hoping it would be split. Actually £20 is $30 USD so your are 3/10ths there.

thanks Paul (Administrator)
pschonmann

Pro
[Avatar]
Joined: 30/11/2008 14:02:22
Messages: 239
Offline

+ £35

Anyone else who wants this feature ? Support Pauls hard work !

Support Jaikoz! I did it!
[Email] [WWW]
paultaylor

Pro
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
Messages: 7704
Offline

Thankyou very much Petr, this will happen for the release after next.

thanks Paul (Administrator)
paultaylor

Pro
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
Messages: 7704
Offline

Hey guys, this is how I see it please review.

1. Current Siutation:

Just takes the most popular MB tag and applies it to the genre field.
Just takes the first Discogs style (that isnt in genre blackllist) and applies it to the genre field.

2. Proposed
Put all Discogs styles (that aren't blacklisted) into genre field
Put all Discogs genres (that aren't blacklisted) into the grouping field
Put all MB tags (that arent blacklisted) into genre field

Discogs styles seem much more useful than genre which is why I propose keeping putting the styles into the genre field rather than the genre.

Preferences:
Add genre to grouping field ? yes/no
Get multiple genres/styles ? yes/no
Max genres per track ? integer

Problems:
Some formats dont allow multiple genres, so either we just take one for those or we put them in all one field seperated by ';' or similar, any ideas?

People may be using the Grouping for something else, could create a new field but then this would only be useful in Jaikoz so not much point.


thanks Paul (Administrator)
wynlyndd

Pro
[Avatar]

Joined: 20/12/2007 07:09:10
Messages: 175
Location: USA
Offline

Could one of you who requested this feature give a popular example of a track with multiple discog styles and genres? I'd like to see how this plays out against Paul's proposal.


Problems cannot be solved at the level of awareness that created the problem
mcammer

Pro

Joined: 06/02/2008 07:04:28
Messages: 69
Offline

This is for wynlyndd. Not sure what you want but single artist releases generally have only one genre (because genres are so broad). It is easy, however, to find examples of what you asked for among compilation and soundtrack releases.

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Pulp-Fiction-Soundtrack/release/376354

Genre: Funk / Soul, Non-Music, Rock, Stage & Screen
Style: Surf, Rock & Roll, Dialogue, Soul, Soundtrack, Funk
mcammer

Pro

Joined: 06/02/2008 07:04:28
Messages: 69
Offline

Now to respond to Paul.

first preference- Discogs genre -> grouping; Discogs style -> grouping

second preference- Discogs genre -> genre; Discogs style -> grouping

MB tags should go to grouping, but I haven't found those all that useful.

The reason for this is that iTunes doesn't like multiple genres. Each combination becomes its own new genre. So, a release tagged "Rock, Europop" does not sort with either "Rock" and/or "Europop". Similarly, "Rock, Classic Rock, Country Rock" is separate from "Rock, Country Rock, Classic Rock". Not that Jaikoz users all use iTunes, but still.

It would be great if Jaikoz could append Discogs categories to existing terms in grouping (rather than overwrite). If needed, I could put up with some sort of column swapping to merge Discogs info with what I already have in grouping. The big advantage for me is that grouping is more or less hidden in iTunes but fully searchable and usable for making smart playlists.

I suppose it's impossible to make this all user configurable? Like so:

Discogs genre- to genre; to grouping; overwrite; append; take one; take all

Discogs style- to genre; to grouping; overwrite; append; take first; take all

MB tags- to genre; to grouping; overwrite; append; most popular; all


Other random notes:

Discogs almost always has a genre listed but sometimes the styles field is blank. Paul's scheme and my first pref might leave the user with info in the grouping field but no genre assigned.

Discogs genres seem to be listed alphabetically when there are multiple genres, but this is not true for styles.

List of Discogs genres (with clickable link to styles for each genre)
http://wiki.discogs.com/index.php/Style_Guide

Discogs is great for Electronica & Rock, really weak in Folk, World & Country (lumped into a single genre?!!)

All Music Guide has a much more comprehensive list of genres/styles but they are fully commercial and licensing would be prohibitive I'm sure.
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=73:p
wynlyndd

Pro
[Avatar]

Joined: 20/12/2007 07:09:10
Messages: 175
Location: USA
Offline

mcammer wrote:
This is for wynlyndd. Not sure what you want but single artist releases generally have only one genre (because genres are so broad). It is easy, however, to find examples of what you asked for among compilation and soundtrack releases.

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Pulp-Fiction-Soundtrack/release/376354

Genre: Funk / Soul, Non-Music, Rock, Stage & Screen
Style: Surf, Rock & Roll, Dialogue, Soul, Soundtrack, Funk  


Thank you for taking the time to help school me. Since I have just about everything done in regards to the main tags (artist, album, title, track, etc) I've been thinking focusing on what to do about genre,style, grouping whatever. I have pretty much excluded thinking about it since it was so subjective.

So discogs has genres and styles attributed to an entire album (makes sense since they appear to operate at a disk level). Do you find there to be much conflict with thinking at a track level vs a disk level to be much of an issue? I have tons of compilations that have wildly varying types of music on them. For example, the Pulp Fiction soundtrack you listed has Surf and Dialog as styles. I presume that in most music managers, if I made a smart playlist of some kind based on Surf, all the short tracks of Dialog from the movie would also be in the playlist?


Too bad it seems multiple genres are not well supported in most music managers (like iTunes).

Problems cannot be solved at the level of awareness that created the problem
mcammer

Pro

Joined: 06/02/2008 07:04:28
Messages: 69
Offline

Totally right, wynlyndd. Genre/style is subjective so you either do it all yourself or you live with the compromises of discogs, last.fm, MB, etc.

Now, I was going to suggest to Paul that another option would be to use artist genre/style info on Various Artist releases to get around the issues you bring up. But I didn't want to ask for too much....
paultaylor

Pro
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
Messages: 7704
Offline

mcammer wrote:
Now, I was going to suggest to Paul that another option would be to use artist genre/style info on Various Artist releases to get around the issues you bring up. But I didn't want to ask for too much.... 

I omitted to say that Jaikoz uses Musicbrainz track tags, then if there isnt any the release tag, and if still missing the artist tag to try and tag songs with genres .... but of course you are talking about Discogs Artist Tags which it doesnt d.

thanks Paul (Administrator)
mcammer

Pro

Joined: 06/02/2008 07:04:28
Messages: 69
Offline

My dream would be an option to use Discogs artist genre/style info to mark tracks *instead of* Discogs disk genre/style info for Various Artist releases.

On regular single artist releases, I would still use the disk info.

This would get round the mish-mosh of styles on some multiartist releases.

Of course, I appreciate whatever you can do.
paultaylor

Pro
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
Messages: 7704
Offline

Lets have another go at this.

Firstly it is important that Jaikoz works as well as it can out of the box. Most people are going to be using the genre field and not the grouping field so it is important that the 1st value in the genre field contains the best genre, This is not the value in the Discogs genre field , its always far too generic so I think I should stick with using the first style field as I already do.

Then if I used Foobars null char method I could actually add the remaining styles (and perhaps the genre) to the Genre field, then players that understand multiple genre values could make use of them immediately, and because they are seperated by a null char, software such as iTunes would use only the first genre, you wouldn't end up with multiple genre genres as you feared.

But the current UI doesn't make it possible easy to see the multiple genres in the genre field for more than one song at a time. So if the same list of values was also written to the Grouping field then you could do your smart playlists in iTunes. Alternatively we could implement Foobars entry method of using ';' to seperate values and then when the values are written they are seperated by null char, but the trouble with this is that in iTunes it will only read the first field in grouping so you wont be able to use smart lists.


thanks Paul (Administrator)
mcammer

Pro

Joined: 06/02/2008 07:04:28
Messages: 69
Offline

Firstly it is important that Jaikoz works as well as it can out of the box. Most people are going to be using the genre field and not the grouping field so it is important that the 1st value in the genre field contains the best genre 


Agree completely.

This is not the value in the Discogs genre field , its always far too generic so I think I should stick with using the first style field as I already do.  


OK, judgment call. I can always choose not to write to the genre field.

Keep in mind that the Discogs style field is blank for soem fraction of entries.

if the same list of values was also written to the Grouping field then you could do your smart playlists in iTunes 


That totally works work for me!
paultaylor

Pro
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
Messages: 7704
Offline

mcammer wrote:

This is not the value in the Discogs genre field , its always far too generic so I think I should stick with using the first style field as I already do.  

OK, judgment call. I can always choose not to write to the genre field.
 

okay well I could make this an option, can you look again at the options you had before and see what you really need.

I could try and get it to add new values into the grouping fields without overwriting, buts its difficult if we just use a space as a seperator because then how do you match multiple word genres.

Perhaps should use a comma by default rather than space, (and if a semi colon is used then does the actual multiple field splitting Foobar style as described)

thanks Paul (Administrator)
mcammer

Pro

Joined: 06/02/2008 07:04:28
Messages: 69
Offline

seems to me there are two main options needed:

write all Discogs styles to genre (sub option, only write first style) (sub option, use Discogs genre if Discogs style field is blank)

write all Discogs styles to grouping


if append rather than overwrite is a problem then that can be worked around (by column swapping, etc.). I'll try some delimiter experiments tonight with iTunes and see if there's an obvious choice there.

the option "never populate" genre or "write only if empty" would still be there, so that's nothing new

mcammer

Pro

Joined: 06/02/2008 07:04:28
Messages: 69
Offline

good news is that it doesn't seem to matter what the delimiter is in iTunes. Searching is quite literal.

A search for "pop euro" or "euro pop" does not match Euro-pop or euro, pop. However, search terms are combinable so "pop" and "euro" works.
paultaylor

Pro
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
Messages: 7704
Offline

mcammer wrote:
A search for "pop euro" or "euro pop" does not match Euro-pop or euro 


Are you sure, f I have grouping containing House,Synth-pop, iTunes finds it if I enter

House pop

or

Pop House



thanks Paul (Administrator)
mcammer

Pro

Joined: 06/02/2008 07:04:28
Messages: 69
Offline

wow, you're right. ITunes is now behaving exactly as you say.
paultaylor

Pro
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
Messages: 7704
Offline

This is how the preferences will work

For the existing Discogs/Genre combo change

Always Fill in this Field to :
Always Replace values this field
and add:
Always Add values this field

Then add a new Grouping combo with the same options

Move these two options to new lines and then to the right of each add another combo containing

Discogs Style
Discogs Genre
Discogs Genre then Style
Discogs Style then Genre

and a slider going from

1 to All

So screen ends up like

Genre Combo1 From Combo2 Max Slider1
Grouping Combo1 From Combo2 Max Slider1

To be frank this is more options than wanted to add but I cannot see a way to simplify things and still let users do what they really want to, hopefully this meets the requirements


thanks Paul (Administrator)
paultaylor

Pro
[Avatar]

Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
Messages: 7704
Offline

Here a screenshot of the new preferences on Vista, should make things a bit clearer
[Thumb - newgenresprefs.jpg]
 Filename newgenresprefs.jpg [Disk] Download
 Description Discogs Preferences
 Filesize 83 Kbytes
 Downloaded:  616 time(s)


thanks Paul (Administrator)
mcammer

Pro

Joined: 06/02/2008 07:04:28
Messages: 69
Offline

That looks absolutely lovely!
pschonmann

Pro
[Avatar]
Joined: 30/11/2008 14:02:22
Messages: 239
Offline

Any news ?

Settings looks great. And impilies idea to create filter has Discogs url / hasnot Disc url like mb/aplifind ids.

Now im using musicbee player and seems to its very familiar with multiple tags in genre1;genre2;g .... format. I suggest to save this format
Thanks

Support Jaikoz! I did it!
[Email] [WWW]
 
Forum Index -> Jaikoz Questions Go to Page: 1, 2 Next 
Go to:   
Powered by JForum 2.1.6 © JForum Team