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Jaikoz, Mediamonkey and the MOOD tag  XML
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999jaikoz

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Joined: 30/06/2012 19:21:02
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Firstly, my respects for great programs within the chaos of tags, their generations and the way every program wants to manipulate them differently.

I love Jaikoz & MediaMonkey and the MOOD tag, but my head is spinning trying to sort out the delicate use of this tag.

Set up:
MM ver 4.1.3 option: use mp3 tag 3.2
Jaikoz ver 6.2 options: delete mp3 tag 3.1, save 'always write' / 'same as or v24'

take a clean mp3. write mood tag in jaikoz. It shows up in MM.
'touch' the file with any new tag in MM.
reopen in Jaikoz, the MOOD tag is gone for good.
A hex editor reveals the tag is still there using BOTH TMOO and XXXMusicMatch_Mood_ ...but Jaikoz will not see it.

I've spent hours seeing if different settings or careful handling will make this any less delicate but it is no longer making AAANY sense to me.

HEEELP!
paultaylor

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Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
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Okay Jaikoz uses the field TMOO for ID3v24, but note TMOO is not valid for ID3v23 (Jaikzo would convert to TXXX MOOD if saved as ID3v23) - are you sure the tag is still in ID3v24 format after you save it in Media Monkey ?

thanks Paul (Administrator)
999jaikoz

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Frankly, I started getting EXTREMELY confused - the more I tried things the less sure I was of what I was seeing...but some further details:

I THINK MMonkey puts the "XXXMusicMatch_MOOD" tag in the file anytime a tag is written to a file with an existing mood tag. Once this version of the tag shows up, Jaikoz becomes unable to see a mood tag in the file at all (?). MMonkey won't see ANY "TMOO" input after that (though it showed up nicely before), only the musicmatch version. The musicmatch version starts showing up as a COMMENT in jaikoz. I just discovered switching the jaikoz view from 'edit' to 'ID3' view sheds more info on the incompatibility.

I think the real problem is that MMonkey is going to write that MusicMatch tag if you input any tag into the file, and once that shows up, MMonkey and Jaikoz aren't speaking the same language with the MOOD tag, and settings adjustments don't seem to help at that point, that I can see.

Searching MMonkey forums, it SEEMS that MMonkey uses 3.23 with SOME undefined possible use of 3.24. That's as much help as I found on that end.
999jaikoz

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Sorry, I sort of didn't answer your question.

MMonkey SEES 'TMOO' until it resaves a file, then it KEEPS the 'TMOO' but writes the 'XXXMusicMatch' crap.

Writing a mood tag into MMonkey FIRST results in 'TMOO' AND 'COMM XXXMusicMatch_MOOD' being written. Jaikoz in'Edit' view then does not see a MOOD tag at all, but in 'ID3 Edit' view shows the newly input tag in the COMMENTS header and the 'TMOO' shows up rather strangely under the 'Unknown List' header.

I swear this wasn't happening before, but 2 or 3 jaikoz uprades, and 2 or 3 MediaMonkey upgrades later...Or I just never noticed the issue. I don't know.
paultaylor

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Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
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But you save the file in Jaikoz as v24, it seems to me that when you save the file in MediaMonkey it converts it to v23 - can you make it keep v24 tag.

thanks Paul (Administrator)
999jaikoz

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Well it doent exactly 'convert' to v23; it aims for compatilibilty (I guess) because it writre/perserves TMOO but ADDS 'COM XXXMusicMatch_MOOD'

Once that shows up the two programs have a total breakdown with the mood tag compatibility.

I cant figure out why Jaikoz wont see the TMOO tag anymore (it no longer shows up even though a TMOO tag is there), and MMonkey will only see the MusicMatch tag (although it sees the TMOO fine before it adds that other crap).

I don't think there's any way to pre MMonkey from writing that MusicMatch Tag either!

The TMOO can be there all along but neither program will recognize it once MMonkey writes the other crap.
paultaylor

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999jaikoz wrote:
Well it doent exactly 'convert' to v23; it aims for compatilibilty (I guess) because it writre/perserves TMOO but ADDS 'COM XXXMusicMatch_MOOD'
 

Either it or it doesnt, what tag version is shown after editing in Media Monkey and reopening in in Jaikoz or at the start of the file if you use hexedit what is the value of the fourth byte.

thanks Paul (Administrator)
999jaikoz

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converts to 3.23.

No options anywhere to use 3.24
paultaylor

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Theres your problem then, MM is converting from v24 to v23 but not doing it properly. Instead configure Jaikoz to save as IDv23 to start with, then if you edit in MM it doesnt need to convert the tag -give that a go.

thanks Paul (Administrator)
999jaikoz

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Joined: 30/06/2012 19:21:02
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Thanks, that'd be beautiful if its that simple. If its not, I don't expect you to solve peculiarities in MMonkey for me. I just hoped you might have guidance.

I cant even remember why I relied on the MOOD tag instead of a CustomX in the first place. I think it was because MM gives MOOD tag *checkboxes* in searches, etc - but I've come to hate that, as they are NOT listed alphabeticly, and its a pain to search for the right checkbox.

I may just migrate from the troublesome mood tag anyway!!
999jaikoz

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Joined: 30/06/2012 19:21:02
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Well, so you know...

Set both MM & Jaikoz to both use ID3 v3.23.

take two clean files.

write a mood tag in jaikoz = nothing in MM

write a mood tag in MM = COMMENT tag in Jaikoz!

999jaikoz

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Joined: 30/06/2012 19:21:02
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I don't wish to harass you on this topic, but I've had some exchanges with Mediamonkey forum gurus about this matter.

The important questions seems to be, can (or should) Jaikoz use TMOO for v3.23? Others are suggesting that is appropriate. That would be ideal for me, as I could set Jaikoz to work in 3.23 and not get Jaikoz trying to convert any and every Mediamonkey altered file BACK to 3.24 every time its loaded. (There is no Mediamonkey implementation of 3.24 on any horizon)

At this point I MUST use Jaikoz's 3.24 setting or I have zero compatibility with MOOD tags.

As I perceive it:

If a MOOD tag is written in JAIKOZ (set for ID3 v3.23) it writes
"XXX Mood"
Which Mediamonkey will not recognize.
Set JAIKOZ to write a MOOD tag in ID3 v3.24 and it writes
"TMOO"
Which Mediamonkey WILL recognize, but alter any tag in the file in Mediamonkey, and it ADDS the 'XXX MusicMatch_Mood' version of a MOOD tag for compatibility with other progs (which can NOT be disabled).

At this point Mediamonkey is happy, but the file has two different MOOD animals in it (troublesome someday perhaps) and now NO mood tag will show up in JAIKOZ ever again, unless the MusicMatch stuff is stripped (and it will just get added back!).

Shouldn't Jaikoz still recognize TMOO despite the MusicMatch nonsense?
Better yet, can there be at least a Jaikoz Special One-time-limited Edition! which uses TMOO fo v3.23. That'd resolve every problem I still have with compatibility.
greengeek

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I use media monkey as well for my local clients and love the software as it is one of the few that can handle really large collections. One thing I have noticed though is that mediamonkey does a lot of weird things when handling tagging which is outside the normal or standards. For example, I use to use them to grab my last.fm tag info and instead of using the correct separators for the tags, they just put in a semi colon which I had to go and do a find and replace with in jaikoz to fix, but thats besides the point, lol.

I still use mm as a player, but I no longer use it to tag any info that jaikoz does not provide. I currently have moved over to using beets to tag all that additional info, such as tags, and you can even use moods, dancability, ratings, lyrics, etc with their echonest and other plugins. Have you played around at all with beets? http://beets.readthedocs.org/en/v1.3.7/plugins/ It is very streamline, however its all command based, so not nearly as friendly as the alternatives.

I would love if someday jaikoz and songkong supported their own plugin system, then we can have the software grab all the info directly and add it to the tags in a way that is standardized that jaikoz and sk are so good at.

KevinBluemel.com
Contemporary Instrumental Musician and Composer. Stop by to listen, watch videos, and get free downloads of songs and sheet music.
[WWW]
999jaikoz

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Joined: 30/06/2012 19:21:02
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SCRATCH THAT!

Sorry, just tested and found it irrelevant if Jaikoz uses TMOO, as Mediamonkey will never look at TMOO again (even though it does initially) once it shoves the MusicMatch nonsense into the file. Its a bust.

@greengeek
I actually love Mediamonkey. Mood tag aside, I use Jaikoz, Mediamonkey and SoundForge and never even think about other music file software anymore.

The skinning engine is a maze, but I figured it out and have a beautiful player that's laid out EXACTLY how I want it; and the active forum with all the SCRIPTS mediamonkey permits is just a dream come true. I've never worked with anything but HTML/CSS before, but in the past year (just from examining and retooling MM scripts) have made the player do many fancy wonderful things. I'm pretty committed to it...Just gonna dump the MOOD TAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
greengeek

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Joined: 18/09/2007 02:50:48
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@999jaikoz

Awesome, if you ever come across a nice touch screen skin that can be used in a jukebox type setting let me know I would love to find one and mm would rock as a back end.

KevinBluemel.com
Contemporary Instrumental Musician and Composer. Stop by to listen, watch videos, and get free downloads of songs and sheet music.
[WWW]
999jaikoz

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Joined: 30/06/2012 19:21:02
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OK! Another twist.

A developer (I believe) at MediaMonkey just shared a secret and (from my searches) previously unshared way to stop Mediamonkey from rewriting MOOD and other tags in a "MusicMatch" format.

For any other Jaikoz users who use MediaMoney and desire this:
In the MediaMonkey.ini file,
find section "[Options]" and add
WriteMusicMatchTags=0

This means Mediamonkey can be made to read/store/write mood tag as TMOO. That's an improvement.

HOWEVER, mediamonkey converts/saves tags in v3.23.

Paul, I'm halfway there...is TMOO possible for Jaikoz when set to v3.23?
paultaylor

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Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
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HI TMOO is used for ID3v24 but not ID3v23 because TMOO is not valid for ID3v23, can you just use ID3v24 ?

thanks Paul (Administrator)
999jaikoz

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Joined: 30/06/2012 19:21:02
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Yes, but every time the file goes back from mediamonkey <--> jaikoz there will be the conversion 3.23 <--> 3.24, which seems to bring out these issues, AND causes any file backup sync to rewrite ALL such files even though more often than not there were no changes made.

Ideally I just live in 3.23, but the MOOD tag is crippling me. I could switch the MOOD entries to Custom1, but it won't be a small matter, as there is 50,000 file tag migration, layout changes, and about 14 scripts that will have to be carefully retooled as they currently are coded to deal with mood tag.

I will do some experimenting with settings, but I thought I'd ask about TMOO.

Thanks.
paultaylor

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Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
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Why doesn't Media Monkey support ID3v24 after all these years !

thanks Paul (Administrator)
 
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