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tags shown are from PREVIOUS version of song - thus WRONG!  XML
Forum Index -> Jaikoz Issues
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999jaikoz

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Joined: 30/06/2012 19:21:02
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If a song (flac or mp3) is loaded in Jaikoz I see the tags I've entered. If that song is then deleted, and replaced by an older version of the same file (same name) ...

when I drag the replaced version of the file to Jaikoz I SEE ALL THE PREVIOUS TAGS!!!

THE TAGS I SEE IN JAIKOZ ARE ABSOLUTELY NOT IN THE FILE!!!!!!!!!!

I must assume Jaikoz is referencing a database of its own and not actually reading the file???

That's nuts, if that's the case. I can't trust that methodology at all. That would make Jaikoz almost unuseable. I have to be able to KNOW that I'm seeing the tags in the ACTUAL FILE - not some reference to the file! Garbage in garbage out! Working with files based on tags that are utterly incorrect as displayed is a disaster.

If this is the case, what previous version of Jaikoz can I install after trashing the current version, to escape this behavior ???

Am I missing a 'preference' checkbox that says "work with ACTUAL files"??

HELP!
paultaylor

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Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
Messages: 7512
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When Jaikoz first loads a songs it puts the info in its internal db. If you start Jaikoz again and try and load the same song its look at the file modification date, if that date is later than the date file was written to internal db then it will reread the files metadata, if it is not then it will just use the metadata already stored in the internal database - this is purely for performance reasons, and has never previously been an issue.

Now, when you say you deleted the file and replaced by an older version of the file is this from some of kind of backup that also doesn't respect the date you put the file back but instead reset this to an earlier date as well ?

If that is the case that could cause the issue, but you can resolve this by running Advanced:Empty Cache before loading the files, this will empty the database.


thanks Paul (Administrator)
999jaikoz

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Joined: 30/06/2012 19:21:02
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OK, "advanced/empty cache" gives some comfort.

Now that I've pressed it, I can't replicate my issue!! I'm confused. But NO, I'm not using any strange or sophisticated backup software. I was just altering files and comparing with originals (to try to pin down another buggy concern), when I started seeing false tag representations. I have had a headache ever since as I've been nagged by the potential that weeks/months of file tagging efforts may have been just making a complex mess instead of cleaning and organizing. I will put some more effort into trying to replicate the issue.

I appreciate this caching adds speed to operations, but something like this makes me panic that several hundred/thousand files may have garbage tags because I didn't know about the caching.

PLEEEASE put a preference option for a degree of automatic cache flushing. (empty at program close? empty at file close?).

I didn't find a toolbar option for the empty cache function either - how about that too. With a big DANGER icon, so even when I'm moving too fast I will remember this potential (albeit small), for false representation of tags.
999jaikoz

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Joined: 30/06/2012 19:21:02
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Yeah, I absolutely positively saw this behavior again.

EXACTLY what steps are inciting this are confusing, and I can't get a handle on it yet...but I'm just swapping files with other copies of the file - nothing that doesn't happen on a regular basis, No weird treatment.

Just how much slower will Jaikoz be if I could turn off caching? I do not like this.
paultaylor

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Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
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The thing is no else have ever reported this issue, and its been in the product since at least 2008 so I cant help but feel the issue is very specific to you, how exactly are you restoring the old files.

thanks Paul (Administrator)
999jaikoz

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Joined: 30/06/2012 19:21:02
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"how exactly are you restoring the old file" Delete some files from folder, copy some previous backups. Its more idiosyncratic than that, but in short, that is the behavior that can result in erroneous display of the file's tags.

Now, I've been using Jaikoz heavily for the past two years - and I never caught ANY whiff of this behavior either (before now); but that doesn't mean it wasn't creeping occasionally into my efforts to be meticulous with tagging. The behavior is quite real - and if you nor I can easily define what precisely can cause it then I can't work in a manner whereby I can predict I won't suffer from it.

It's your program, of course, and you should address issues you feel merit the attention; but seriously, I can no longer RECOMMEND (which I have also done heavily) this program now that I've seen what I consider a significant and confusing issue.

Sleeping on the idea, I really feel an option "flush cache on program close" and a toolbar icon are quite enough of a solution.

As for detailing an exact procedure which incurs this, I will try to access that soon, but I'm also trying to work with SONY to resolve an its-bigger-than-a-"bug" problem with sound forge, and still REALLY need to figure out what causes media monkey's latest release to loose mood tags when files go back and forth with jaikoz, and am battling some non-audio software misbehavior as well; so my unpaid beta-esque testing lifestyle has got me to a level of cranky frustration where, honestly, I'm going to put this all aside for a month.

Please just consider the 'flush cache at closing" option.
paultaylor

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Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
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Sure, Ive raised https://jthink.atlassian.net/browse/JAIKOZ-1001

But the reason I ask is to try and established whether the file had changed on disk and whether the modified date had been corresponding updated.

If the date has changed to a later date then the date of the file in Jaikoz then Jaikoz should always read from file, then this is a serious problem that should not happen.

If the date has not changed (or has changed to a different earlier date) then this would not trigger Jaikoz to reread the file. I was not aware that you modify file without updating the modification date, but if you can then I need to have a solution to it, probably just the Empty on Close solution

Re Moods tags, so we are still at the same situation as detailed in this post http://www.jthink.net/jaikozforum/posts/list/14300.page or is there a new issue.

thanks Paul (Administrator)
999jaikoz

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Joined: 30/06/2012 19:21:02
Messages: 34
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Re mood tags:
I actually got Media Monkey authors to tweak the way it handles the mood tag. But I noticed there is STILL an issue where the tag would disappear when a file goes back and forth with Jaikoz. I was in the process of trying to nail down this problem when I was dumbfounded to see jaikoz showing me tags that were not in the file opened. At that point I felt like I was going down a rabbit hole of software bugs, and gave up. This DOES (I believe) explain why, despite HOURS of trying to gather specific details of how and why the mood tag gets lost, I never could seem to escape a perplexing confusion on my last effort. I'm sure I was seeing the cached tags in jaikoz often enough to garble any pattern I thought I had found.

I'm gonna relax with some world cup tonight, but I will see if I can generate a clear cut scenario that causes the file tag confusion tommorrow.
 
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