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Classical music -- composer versus artist  XML
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Ulrich



Joined: 16/01/2016 10:25:36
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Hello

In my case, lot's of classical music, in most cases SongKong confuses artist and composers. Mostly, the it puts the composer in both fields of leaves the artist field blank.
I used SongKong with the given preferences. Anything I could change?
Thank you.
Ulrich

Best Ulrich
paultaylor

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Joined: 21/08/2006 09:21:27
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Hi Ulrich

Yes, Classical Music is difficult, and some users want the artist to be the composer others the orchestra. I dont have a solution for always getting the right thing in these fields at the moment but I plan in the next release to at least let you tell SONGKONG to leave these fields alone, see

https://jthink.atlassian.net/browse/SONGKONG-930

but Im not aware of SongKong currently ever leaving the artist field blank if it finds a match.

thanks Paul (Administrator)
Ulrich



Joined: 16/01/2016 10:25:36
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Hello
Thanks for you reply.
Yes, there are different opinions about that, that is fine. An example of my problem: Glenn Gould playing Bach: In Audirvana I see Bach in the field composer and artist. The name of Glenn Gould does not appear anywhere! What means, I can't even put up a smart playlist with his name.
Herzliche GrĂ¼sse Ulrich

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paultaylor

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Do you have a link to the MusicBrainz (or Dicogs) release these songs have been matched to

thanks Paul (Administrator)
paultaylor

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The latest release does go some way to address this in that you can instruct SongKong not to update Artist/Composer/Album Artist/Conductor fields if you have entered a special usage for these files.

thanks Paul (Administrator)
billfish

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Joined: 20/09/2016 21:20:08
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Could we have a separate Rename Mask for music that SongKong identifies as classical? Or an isclassical switch for the rename masks?

Although I don't think Musicbrainz is consistent - it looks like the "Release Artist" can be "Johann Sebastian Bach; Glenn Gould" or "Glenn Gould" or "Bach" or "Bach; Glenn Gould". Release Group Artist can be "Johann Sebastian Bach" or "Bach; Glenn Gould". Now I'm confused.
paultaylor

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An isclassical variable should have been there, that was an omission that I have now fixed for new release within a couple of weeks (then I work on adding all these new fields to Jaikoz), for now I don't think a separate classical rename mask is required, as that would necessitate a Various Artist Classical Mask and so on.

MusicBrainz Release Artist tends to reflect whatever is written on the cover. One improvement I have added for next release is the option to remove the Composer from the AlbumArtist (as stored in Composer field anyway), I would be interested in knowing if this would be useful for you and other improvements that you require.

The original issue on this thread was about (track) artist, now as long as SongKong 4.0 successfully identifies a track as classical it will now add the performers to the artist field by default rather than adding the composer to the artist field.

Also, note Ive started a series of blog posts about Classical music and SongKong, please share http://blog.jthink.net/2016/09/tagging-classical-musicpart-i-track.html

thanks Paul (Administrator)
billfish

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Joined: 20/09/2016 21:20:08
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Hi, thanks for responding.

To carry on with the same example, I would want to have all Bach, J.S. albums together, and then within that, I would want to have all Bach albums by Glenn Gould together.

If you mean you can subtract the Composer value from the AlbumArtist field, to perhaps get a more usable Album Artist value, great. If I can have ?Gould, Glenn? as Album Artist and ?Bach, J. S.? (or some standard form) as Composer, then it seems that by renaming or sorting I can do anything.

A quick look at a few recordings shows Musicbrainz doing things that you?re well aware of but I?m just starting to peer into and I may not be doing it right at all; please pardon my hubris and my thinking out loud:

Track Artist: For a solo album, performer; for an orchestral recording, can be orchestra-conductor-soloist or conductor-orchestra or soloists-orchestra or conductor

Composer: Varying versions of the composer?s name. Sometimes not included at all. Sometimes the composer?s name appears only in the album title.

Album Artist: For solo albums, the performer or the composer. For orchestral, the composer. Sometimes left out so that the composer?s name appears only in the album title.

It seems like for solo albums, if all tracks have the same Artist, taking the composer out of Album Artist and putting the Artist into Album Artist would usually work. If the composer isn?t in Album Artist, leave it alone, maybe it?s the performer.

For orchestral recordings, if all tracks have the same Artist, removing the composer from Album Artist and putting the contents of Artist into Album Artist would still be helpful. And putting the performers into the artist field instead of the composer, as you say, is good.


Thank you for an isclassical variable. This raises the question of how elaborate the rename masks can be - could I branch on the value of isclassical and then do completely different things for classical and nonclassical recordings?
paultaylor

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billfish wrote:
Hi, thanks for responding.

To carry on with the same example, I would want to have all Bach, J.S. albums together, and then within that, I would want to have all Bach albums by Glenn Gould together.

If you mean you can subtract the Composer value from the AlbumArtist field, to perhaps get a more usable Album Artist value, great. If I can have ?Gould, Glenn? as Album Artist and ?Bach, J. S.? (or some standard form) as Composer, then it seems that by renaming or sorting I can do anything.
 

Yes this is done for next release which will be next week at the latest.

billfish wrote:

A quick look at a few recordings shows Musicbrainz doing things that you?re well aware of but I?m just starting to peer into and I may not be doing it right at all; please pardon my hubris and my thinking out loud:

Track Artist: For a solo album, performer; for an orchestral recording, can be orchestra-conductor-soloist or conductor-orchestra or soloists-orchestra or conductor
 

The MusicBrainz guidelines mean are that composer should always be stored as TrackArtist, and performers should be stored for RecordingArtist. So you are generally correct if talking about recording artist not track artist but the guidelines are not fully adhered to so SongKong constructs its own TrackArtist based on User options, RecordingArtist,TrackArtist and Recording relations.

billfish wrote:

Composer: Varying versions of the composer?s name. Sometimes not included at all. Sometimes the composer?s name appears only in the album title.
 

Usually it is included as TrackArtist, and often as a Composer relationship as well. The problem is usually the other way round that the composer is credited but the performers/musicians are not.


billfish wrote:

Album Artist: For solo albums, the performer or the composer. For orchestral, the composer. Sometimes left out so that the composer?s name appears only in the album title.
 

It should be Composers; Main Performers, Orchestra/Choir/Ensemble/Conductors

billfish wrote:

It seems like for solo albums, if all tracks have the same Artist, taking the composer out of Album Artist and putting the Artist into Album Artist would usually work. If the composer isn?t in Album Artist, leave it alone, maybe it?s the performer.

For orchestral recordings, if all tracks have the same Artist, removing the composer from Album Artist and putting the contents of Artist into Album Artist would still be helpful. And putting the performers into the artist field instead of the composer, as you say, is good.
 

Just pick the preferred TrackArtist format in SongKong and let SongKong worry about constructing the desired TrackArtist, note that the new version works better than the current v4.


billfish wrote:

Thank you for an isclassical variable. This raises the question of how elaborate the rename masks can be - could I branch on the value of isclassical and then do completely different things for classical and non-classical recordings? 

Yes, you will be able to in next release.

thanks Paul (Administrator)
billfish

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Joined: 20/09/2016 21:20:08
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Yay!
 
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