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Messages posted by: snowseals  XML
Profile for snowseals -> Messages posted by snowseals [30]
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What's your take on this?

- Can you reason out why SongKong isnt grabbing those Styles from Discogs?
- What is your take on looking up the MASTER release (if excists in db) for Styles?
- Perhaps a good idea to implement?

The package I upped contains tracks that were tagged Genre-wise by beaTunes...
Which finds more, but are very random.

I've noticed that SongKong isn't grabbing all Styles from Discogs, though when looking them up manually, they are there in the Discogs database.

Here's 11+ pack of tracks to test:

Only 3 of them get tagged, and within that, not sure where the extra Styles come from, when I compare it when looking them up manually.

I just search on artist + title in the search field of Discogs.
Then select the 1st result (which seems to be a All versions/Master release).
Those Styles are pretty accurate.

I'd wished SongKong would deliver those, just like it can ignore the Album and choosing the Earliest Release year instead.

Results SongKong:
2 Brothers on the 4th Floor - Come Take My Hand (Extended Version) - No Genre(?)
Dúné - Hardcore Vibes (South Bound Mix) - No Genre(?)
Hi-Lo - Renegade Mastah (Original Mix) - Electro House; Trance; House
Ice MC - It's A Rainy Day (Euro Club Mix) - No Genre(?)
Inferno Bros - Slaves To the Rave (Stunned Guys Remix) - Gabber; Breakbeat; Hardcore;
Kate Ryan - Only If I (Peter Luts Remix) - No Genre(?)
Kym Sims - Too Blind To See It (Hurley's House Mix) - Breakbeat; Hardcore; House
Noisecontrollers - Pillars Of Creation (Edit) - No Genre(?)
The Chainsmokers - Closer (R3hab Remix) (feat. Halsey) - No Genre(?)
The Riders - Bang (Radio Edit) - No Genre(?)
The Tribe Of Good - Loving You Baby (Weiss Remix) - No genre(?)

Results Discogs searching them up manually / Master/All versions release:
2 Brothers on the 4th Floor - Come Take My Hand (Extended Version) - Style:Euro House, Happy Hardcore, Jungle
Dúné - Hardcore Vibes (South Bound Mix) - Style: Hard Trance, Happy Hardcore
Hi-Lo - Renegade Mastah (Original Mix) - Style: House
Ice MC - It's A Rainy Day (Euro Club Mix) - Style: Euro House
Inferno Bros - Slaves To the Rave (Stunned Guys Remix) - Style: Hardcore, Gabber
Kate Ryan - Only If I (Peter Luts Remix) - Style: Trance
Kym Sims - Too Blind To See It (Hurley's House Mix) - Style: Deep House, Garage House, Downtempo, Breakbeat, House
Noisecontrollers - Pillars Of Creation (Edit) - Style: Hardstyle
The Chainsmokers - Closer (R3hab Remix) (feat. Halsey) - Style: Dance-pop
The Riders - Bang (Radio Edit) - Style: Italodance, Progressive Trance, Euro House
The Tribe Of Good - Loving You Baby (Weiss Remix) - Style: House

I've made sure those Styles are in the White-list of SongKong:

How do I avoid SongKong renaming the title (& artist) of a track?
This way some remixes end up as the original song title, so it's not clear which is what (when look at artst + title tag).
...Or even just rubbish in the title.

Here are a few I spotted manually that will be renamed after using SongKong:

I could luckily replace the values since the files itself are based on Artist - Title.
SongKong version 5.3 Pro used.

But also you can use this value in the Year field as well instead of the release year by simply enabling the Format:Use Original Release Date
Sounds good!
Where exactly do I enable this?
Perhaps you could help me (& the rest of the world) out here?

I'd like to grab the year tag (from resource like Discogs.com or MusicBrains for ex.) for those tracks that dont have a year-tag (or the wrong one).
I've used SongKong Pro, but the results are from when the Album is compiled/released.
I mean, I have some that says: 2017 year-tag wise
But those tunes are just put on a CD that came out in 2017, though, those are classics from the 90's.
Feel my pain?

There is this (extended?) fieldtag called %ORIGINAL YEAR% that supposed to show when it was released.
According to this topic: https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=171592&pid=1868269#pid1868269
It is possible grabbing that info using MusicBrainz Picard.

But the topic also shows, not all tracks have this info.
Then it should grab the oldest %RELEASEDATE% from the db-results.

I?ve tried MusicBrainz Picard & MP3tag using this Discogs-script: https://community.mp3tag.de/t/ws-discogs-pone-mod/9226
But all fail, since it will pop up a list of records, which u then manually have to select.

I would just love to see it autopilot batch style.
1) Drop collection into app
2) Let it search on Artist + Title in Discogs.com or/and MusicBrainz db
3) Grab the %ORIGINAL YEAR% -> if not excist: grab oldest %RELEASEDATE%
4) Save it in the common YEARtag of the ID3-tag

Since SongKong already does a similar job, and has access to those databases, could you implement such function?

I believe anyone whose into music, would like to sort their collection on YEAR aswell.
Not when it was digital released on iTunes for ex. or when it was Remastered or when the Compilation was made.
For ex. When creating a playlist, to catch that ?Zeitgeist?

For the record:
1) If music doesnt excist in MusicBrainz collection, How do I get my music-collection into MusicBrainz?
Do I need to manually create an ID like shown here: https://musicbrainz.org/doc/How_to_Add_a_Release ?

2) If excists in MusicBrainz collection, then they also need Acoustic-fingerprint to match with AcousticBrainz.
If excists, all good, your program will end-up with mood.

If it doesnt, I upload my collection with https://acousticbrainz.org/download client-software right?

Its in italics to signify that you replace mbrecordingid with the actual id as I do below.


Yes, the problem is that MusicBrainz used to provide datadumps on a monthly basis for the new acousticbrainz data. But they have stopped doing that so now I need albunack to trawl for new acousticbrainz data or lookup acousticbrainz directly from SongKong. I'll probably end up doing both, and it is a top priority.

Good stuff

I think its worth noting that Beatunes would not have found so many moods unless you hadn't ran FixSongs on SongKong first since that meant SongKong added the mbrecordings ids to the songs making it easy for Beatunes to just lookup the mood using the mbrecordingId rather than having to find a match in the first place.

I let beaTunes run over a backup of my collection (11053 songs) - which never been fixed by SongKong - and mood-tagged 4465 songs
So SongKong definitely helps
Thank you!

paultaylor wrote:
You can look up the numeric values using

This url doesnt excist though.

I've let SongKong run last nite; 10957 songs in total / 1981 tagged with a mood.
I've deleted the mood-tags and let beaTunes run today; 7257(!) tagged with a mood.

During xmas, my computer was uploading/extracting my collection with the AcousticBrainz Extractor. It took approx. 35 hours to complete;
10824 in total / 7612 feature files submitted / 3211 files had no MBID and were skipped.

Am I right to say, this is where the difference in amount of mood-tags come from? Whereas beaTunes directly tries to lookup the track in the MusicBrainz and AcousticBrainz database, and SongKong using the indirect approach using Albunack, which isnt updated yet?

paultaylor wrote:
Spoke to Hendrik and those values are from his last.fm plugin. If you rerun Beatunes using only AcousticBrainz plugin you should get matching results. 

Testing, attempt 2:
This time using SongKong 4.4 (Pro) vs. AcousticBrainz mood-plugin 0.9.2 from beaTunes with the same songs.

And the winner is...
Amount of songs found and labeled with a mood-description: SongKong
*beaTunes misses 3 out of 10. I tried several different settings, but it wont show any mood for those 3.
I should do such test with my whole collection (read 10k+) to see if there's indeed a big difference mood-tagged/or not-wise.

The mood-descriptions resemble quite the same this time...
What I do find odd is looking at the result of track #6; Extremely calm vs. Excited, astonished.
Can I look such a song up myself to inspect their values in the AcousticBrainz db mood-wise?
Ah, ok thanks.
Any Estimated Time of Arrival available?
Thanks, I just installed that AcousticBrainz Extractor and submitted 133 tracks. It skipped 53 songs due lack of info on MusicBrainz-end.

So this means, it found half of them and now the info about Mood is available for the other half of the songs when using SongKong?

Thanks again!

I'll do some testing asap.

I noticed AcousticBrainz is depending on user input.
I also noticed this blog http://blog.jthink.net/2014/11/how-to-easily-calculate-beats-per.html , where it says:

The future
This is a brand new project so it is not integrated into any other tools yet but soon SongKong and Jaikoz will allow you to both submit new AcousticBrainz data and to automatically add it to your songs.

Is that already the case?

I mean, I do see Create Acoustic fingerprint under Fix Songs -> Match.
But does that mean, I'm contributing to AcousticBrainz aswell?
Hereby the MB Recording IDs pulled from Jaikoz: http://www94.zippyshare.com/v/0hvkpEXE/file.html

Track 1: 6941913b-f2c0-4638-a144-a19715df3517
Track 2: cb63543e-c6c9-4233-a3e9-b220101b1699
Track 3: 0519a10c-ad05-40d2-9928-2114472e5d60
Track 4: 0acc282b-c4db-44b2-a6ae-3c037fa3255a
Track 5: 7a6094ca-50e5-4973-bfb0-2c114d574577
Track 6: 5daaf5cf-5a75-43ee-92a2-ee72c6a40a1d
Track 7: 28651acc-1f13-4431-b2de-d93a33a50084
Track 8: 50c1d6f1-f2b2-4925-94c4-f4eacd4bd6f7
Track 9: 5124f0c4-c3eb-49cd-a312-3a4ff43b542b
Track 10: e3ed55e1-fa10-4b30-9cd0-798aef858da6
So I decided to compare results: SongKong 4.4 (Pro) vs. beaTunes 4.6.10.

I picked 10 tracks from 10 different genres.
The results are interesting.

See picture:

Why is there so much difference between the moods, when comparing the outcome of both programs on the same song?

I even dare to say, there are contradictions.
Like for ex. track 5, 'Extremely Calm' vs. 'Very Excited';
And what about track 10, 'Very glad' vs. 'Very aroused, angry'.

Even the values of Happy/Happiness and Arousal are different.
I thought SongKong was just reading out the data in the database of AcousticBrainz (and beaTunes aswell using its plugin)?

Does SongKong keeps reason with all of the values, like Mood Happy, Arousal, Valence, Agressive, Dance, Party, Relaxed, Sad and divides them to create a distinguished textual tag, like 'Very glad' ?
Or is there just a a tag in the AcousticBrainz db written, called for ex. 'Very glad'?

How does it work?

N.B.: I noticed the picture shows a little vague due tinypic's compression, so I uploaded the pic, you can download it in higher quality here: http://www68.zippyshare.com/v/aOY5uef5/file.html
I can confirm, Enabling the option of 'Save songs so they work best with iTunes' has the desired effect.

No more Genre-numbers, just text, whether the ID3-tags are converted from ID3v23 to ID3v24 before, or not

Finished on a copy of the backup-folder; no numbers in Genres tag, just Genres

Mind you,
Those weren't converted from ID3v2.3 to ID3v2.4 before with Mp3tag.

Options checked in SongKong:
- Rematch
- Update Mood
- Same as or v24
- Save songs so they work best with iTunes

I'll delete this folder, make a new copy of the backup-folder, convert them to ID3v2.4, before I run SongKong to be sure.
No more numbers in Genre-field

As u described above, this could be because I already matched them with the database.

I'll try it out on the backup-folder, which is a direct copy of my track-collection, before starting to use beaTunes and SongKong in search of Mood.

I really dont know, I haven't looked that in-depth to the tracks itself, that got their Genre-tag changed to Nr.tag, so to speak.
I just used the same Track-collection, once again.

Mind you, before I started processing these files with SongKong (and beaTunes) I've converted all tags with Mp3tag to ID3v2.4 already:

I just changed the option in the Save-tab of SongKong, to make sure it wouldn't change it back to ID3v2.3.

Within 1,5 hour from now on, SongKong 4.4 Pro should be done.
I'll let u know if their Genres changed this time or no.

v4.4 Finished / Works!

Numbers are back in Genre :/
I'll rename them and put them thru SK 4.4 again, with that Itunes option Enabled u talk about, to see what happens...
I will run it in about an hour, I'll let u know today, how it went.

But before, I do have to mention you the following:
Since I want to compare SK's results Mood-wise with beaTunes,
I've changed the setting of SK under Save, MP3 Metatag version to 'Same as or v24'.

According to the creator of beaTunes that's needed so it can write in the Mood-tag. link here: http://help.beatunes.com/discussions/questions/5013-mood-tag#comment_40976017
I believe SK already could write Moods with the default setting (which is 'Same as or v23' right?) but alas.

Anyhow, I've let SK run again, with this only setting changed, and after 3 hours (blazingly fast! compared to beaTunes) it finished.
When I went into Mp3tag to view the Mood-tag/field, they're showing. Yay!

But... I also notice some of the Genre-tags are changed to numbers...?
Like genre 'House' changed into the number '35', genre 'Jungle' changed into '11'.
Not all tracks have been changed Genre-wise though.

I do have some Jungle tracks made by a friend of mine, for fun, so no official releases, and they havent changed in the Genre-tag.
So my bet, only the one that were found, got changed.

I know for sure, this has to do with that Setting I mentioned earlier.
Because right before I started to decide to let SK run again (with 'Same as or v24' setting), I was making playlists in beaTunes, based on Genre, to get an overview how many were Mood-tagged. At that moment all the Genres were still showing normal, atleast in beaTunes.
Luckily, the numbers weren't random, so I could easily rename the tag Genre to the right genre again, based on their directory (which I have divided in Genres ) .

Now the question remains though,
Was beaTunes responsible for changing the Genre to Numbers while I was creating Playlists of them?
Or was it SongKong, by changing that Save setting to 'Same or v24' MP3 Tag version-wise?

I mean, the times I'd let SongKong run using the default setting, 'Same as or v23' I think(?), This error didn't occur.

The only setting checked was 'Update Mood and other acoustic attributes such as BPM (SK Pro only)'
The setting 'Update Genres' was disabled for ex.

Used version: SongKong 4.2 (Pro)

I'll let the new SongKong 4.4 run in a few (with that 'Same as or v24-setting' and Genres renamed back to their original Genre-tag) and check what the outcome is/if they change back to Numbers.

snowseals wrote:

So I did a reboot, let ccleaner run to clean up files and fix errors, tried it again, but at a sudden moment it looks like it still hangs.
Support-files uploaded.

version 4.2:

and of version 4.3 here:

I can confirm, I don't have this issue with SongKong Pro 4.2.

It just finished, with same settings:

I uploaded the report here, maybe you can see the difference between the failed attempts report-wise of 4.3 vs. 4.2:
Today, I installed SongKong Pro 4.3, and let it Fix Songs.

Before I went out the door, I saw it wasnt making any progress further.
I thought, I'll just let it run, and see how it turns out, when I'm back at the pc.

3 hours later it was still at that point.

So I did a reboot, let ccleaner run to clean up files and fix errors, tried it again, but at a sudden moment it looks like it still hangs.

Although, its not really hanging, cause the program responds, when I click Stop, or Pause/Continue button.

It just doesnt show its making progress.
I didnt had this issue with SongKong Pro 4.2, trial-version, 2 days ago.
Is this just coincidence?

My internet-connection is just acting normal with, 20ms ping, down/up 5mbps/1mbps.

I've uploaded the reports from my 3 attempts here (since when I try to attach the zip-files to this message, I get some database error of the forum):

I just bought SongKong Pro.
Thanks for giving me the heads up, I'll let you know how it works out.

Kind regards,
Well, AutoCorrect Songs is done by now, but still no Moods showing, see screenshot:

I'm a lil' wary by now, if this function is enabled in Jaikoz trial-version, since Moods still not showing and the download-page says the following about limitations with the free trial-license:
By default Jaikoz comes with a free trial license which is valid for 30 days. The free version is disabled in the following ways
You can test out all the functions on as many files as you wish (except for Pro only features) but changes can only be saved to 20 files during one use of Jaikoz 

I just did a 'Retrieve Acoustic ID' again, and after, 'Submit MusicBrainz/AcousticID Pair to the Server' but still no Moods...
Thank you.

Tried out Jaikoz (for this purpose) today.
I've used the 'Retrieve Acoustic ID' button on top, enabled the Mood-column aswell, but so far no Moods showing up.
Well, highly 50 songs which were tagged, before using this function.

I'm now running the 'AutoCorrector' since a few hours...
Is that the way to get those Moods to show?

Or how should I proceed next time?

I was reading this thesis http://www.tdx.cat/bitstream/handle/10803/51582/tcfl.pdf?sequence=1 which looks like in-depth source material, until I found out by your answer, this is the source/method where/how AcousticBrainz gets its data

I also found out beaTunes has a plugin, so it can use the database of AcousticBrainz aswell (next to last.fm's db) to search for Mood-tags, but I want to compare SongKong against the results of beaTunes.

In beaTunes, I have a clear list of which songs actually got tagged mood-wise.
How can I view how many songs are tagged mood-wise via SongKong?
Is it somewhere in the Summary HTML report or...?

I made sure I disabled some features in SongKong, so it starts fresh and re-scans, re-fingerprints, removed Mood from the ''If already excists, don't override the following tags'' where BPM/MOOD/KEY are put to default, etc. to make it a fair comparishment.
I'm about to buy SongKong Pro, since I really like the idea of the Mood determination.
I havent found another program that determines the mood on itself.
I mean, I do have BeaTunes, but that software grabs the last.fm tags, input by users (which is lean).

So my questions are:
1) How does SongKong Pro determine the mood of a song? Could you be more specific what is it doing in the background?

2) On which theory-model are the tags based? Thayer, Hevner or made-up yourself?
(Delighted, Excited, Astonished, Aroused, Tense, Alarmed, Angry, Afraid, Annoyed, Distressed, Frustrated, Miserable, Sad, Gloomy,
Depressed, Bored, Droopy, Tired, Sleepy, Calm, Relaxed, Serene, Glad, Pleased)

3) Where are those mood tags written to? ID3 tag or SongKong's database?

4) Could I buy the SongKongPro license and test it out for a couple of days, to see how the Mood-option is working out for me, and if i'm not happy, I can get my money back?

Kind regards,
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